What is this about? (cookies for advertising after update)

After updating a few minutes ago, I’ve found this on remnote desktop app.
I’ve no knowledge of cookies; therefore my fears might be completely unjustified, but here they are: “cookies” “advertising” “analytics”.

What is this about, please? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Is this unrelated to remnote ?

I would like to add my two cents here, being the engineer who worked on this together with Karthikk. :grinning:

First, I’d like to elaborate on what exactly we do with the data. It’s not scary or anything, as these legal requirements sometimes make it out to be. Ultimately, we’re just using software for analytics, support, and bug reporting.

Why? - Some of these directly benefit the user, like the live chat through Intercom. Some are more indirect, like analytics. Especially analytics seems shady because it “tracks certain behavior”. What that means though is that it simply tells us things like “How often did user group A use feature X?”, “How many people sign up, out of those who visit our landing page?”… These are very important questions to improve our product. Ultimately, users benefit from that.

What do we collect? - Well, most of the tools just store a unique identifier, so that they can recognize you after re-visiting the page. That’s nothing special, but it legally counts as “personal data”. On top of that, certain tools might use your IP address, and a bit of technical info about your Browser. These have little impact on your privacy but greatly enhance security, analytics, compliance, and support.

So ultimately, “personal data” sounds quite scary, but we’re really just using the basics. No advertising and we don’t even store your real name. And on top of that, you can always opt-out through our privacy page.

Thank you for detailing your usage of cookie for support and R&D.

Personally, I am not really concerned with your usage of behaviours regarding the use of certain functions in remnote. I understand it, and for support and R&D it make sense :+1:

What, I think, might scare people is the privacy about the content we input in remnote… this is the bigger deal. Could you please elaborate on this aspect, if this matter is relevant to your implication in the development of remnote?

Also, I think that from the developer point of view, you know you’re doing “good” things with our data, and therefore you say (I think rightly so) “there is nothing to be concerned about”. But this “lack of concern” is not directly transferable to the users, who need to consolidate the trust they can put in the devs. This is why I think, but this just a customer’s opinion, that you should put the goals and practices of your data collection as transparent as possible (on the page remnote.com), and above and beyond about this, so that trust is maintain, and this issue is dissolved by itself.
cheers

I completely agree with your points above! I am currently working on writing a friendly TL;DR version of our Privacy Policy that should convey what happens here with the cookies.

Also, to reassure, we have no business looking into the content that our users put it into their KBs. They are not accessible to any of the team members :slight_smile: Will make sure to write in detail about this! Thanks for the prompt and motivation here.

You never heard of cookies before?
You can get a basic definition on Wikipedia for that (HTTP cookie - Wikipedia).

Probably 99.9% of all websites use cookies, so its nothing uncommon.
I guess you aren’t from the EU as you would see such message every time you open a new website.

So why are you seeing this message about cookies?
In the EU users have to opt-in before websites (or web applications) are allowed to use cookies because of EU’s GDPR (General data protection regulation) and ePrivacy Directive. The website owner also has to provide detailed information how the cookies are used. Thats why people see this message - to give them the option to decline the use of cookies and to understand how the cookies are used.
So my guess is that RemNote gives that very option also to people outside the EU.

Edit: additional ressources: Cookies, the GDPR, and the ePrivacy Directive - GDPR.eu

Thank you for trying to instruct me on what cookies are, but no need really. Also, I live in EU.

Let me be more clear then :wink:
Why now?
Why on a desktop app?
Why would there be an option for advertising cookies on a paid product? I mean, there is an option to activate ad-oriented cookies…
Why would there be ad oriented cookies on a KB manager paid app, that says:

Will RemNote Share Any of the Personal Information it Receives?
You own the content you put into RemNote. RemNote does not share, sell, rent or otherwise distribute information you enter in RemNote to others, unless required by law enforcement.

Hey @_yb ! Thanks for bringing this to our notice. Here’s some clarity on the subject:

Why now?
As the team is growing we are beginning to focus on User Support and Product Improvement. This means that we are now using tools for providing customer support (like Intercom) and some others for Analytics (like google analytics, amplitude etc.,). We wanted to make sure we are compliant before using these services/tools to improve the user experience and hence the Cookie request at this point :slight_smile:

Why on a desktop app?
same as above . The services that we use to improve User Experience are not limited just to the web-app; users should be able to contact us for support, submit in-app bug reports, opt-in for product analytics etc., from their Desktop app (and mobile apps in the future) as well. We strive to provide the same experience for all the platforms.

Why would there be an option for advertising cookies on a paid product? I mean, there is an option to activate ad-oriented cookies…
Why would there be ad oriented cookies on a KB manager paid app
This one was a mistake! Thank you bringing our attention to this. After inspection I was able to find out that there was a misclassification from our side. We had wrongly classified Google Analytics as Marketing, while it belongs to Analytics. I have corrected this and pushed for an update (kindly let me know if you still see that section. You might have to clear your cache to reset the settings).
You are right! We do not wish to sell user information in anyway nor plan to use paid ads within the app and hence that section is not applicable for us.

This statement still holds true -

Will RemNote Share Any of the Personal Information it Receives?
You own the content you put into RemNote. RemNote does not share, sell, rent or otherwise distribute information you enter in RemNote to others, unless required by law enforcement.

User data, privacy and user productivity are of utmost importance to us :slight_smile:

I’m pleased with the fact that ad-cookie were a mistake ! :+1:

I understand the reasons much better, and it makes sense, indeed.
One thing I would ask about is further clarification about this:

Do you use Google Analytics or not? I think the sentence can be understood both ways (maybe it’s my English level that requires revision)

Sorry about the lack of clarity there, yes we do use Google Analytics to understand where our website visitors (not yet users) are coming from and some other metrics. Google cannot track or measure what happens once the user enters the app :slight_smile: